Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to the Grow show brought to you by Mardi Grunder's Grow Group, where we specialize in helping landscaping companies clarify their platform, grow their people, build their processes, and realize profits. Everything we teach is grounded in real experience. Our team's actively involved in the day to day operations of Southwest Ohio's Grunder Landscaping Company. New episodes are released weekly on Wednesdays and are made possible by the support of Aspire, Bob Yard and Exmark. Remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode.
[00:00:27] Speaker B: Well, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever the case may be. This is Marty Grunder from Grunder Landscape Landscaping Company and the Grow Group. Thanks for downloading the Grow Show. Today we're going to talk about building a landscaping company around great people, strong leadership, premium service, and a culture that customers and team members want to be a part of. I got a lot to share here, folks. We got Rob and Jesse from Coastal Shores on here. But first, a reminder. You can get the latest edition of the Grow show delivered to your phone, tablet or computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts or Watch us on YouTube for an enhanced learning experience. The Grow show is the greatest thing since the Savannah river at the Convention center at the Westin in downtown Savannah, Georgia. Jesse and Rob are like, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you've never been there, folks, come see us at GROW 2027. You get on a ferry, you take a quick ride across the river over to the river street restaurants, bars, shops, and most of all, Southern charm. No chains, lots of fun, great food. I've been there multiple times and it's awesome. Can't wait to share it with you. Speaking of something else I can't wait to share with you. I have two terrific people with me today. Rob and Jesse, owners of Coastal Shores Landscape in South Carolina, Low country.
There's another reason I'm excited to have them here.
Coastal Shores is the company we're touring at GROW 2027 in Savannah, Georgia, February 17th, 18th and 19th, 2027.
So today we're going to give you a little bit of a preview of who Rob and Jesse are, the incredible company they've built, what they've learned along the way, and why I think you'll want to come to Savannah and see this company for yourself. Rob and Jesse, welcome to the Grow Show.
[00:02:18] Speaker C: Thanks for having us, Marty.
[00:02:20] Speaker B: Really excited to have you folks. Been enjoying getting to know you better. I know that Vince and you are very, very close. You're in one of our peer groups. Your name comes up all the time. Your facility is first Class, you're doing things the right way. You have a new facility. Let's learn a little bit more about you. Two, number one, and I find this fascinating because, like, the thought of me just, like, moving someplace else from where I grew up is.
I. I don't think I have the guts to do that.
So you moved down there to coastal Georgia from Indiana in low country to. To be in the low country in 2002, I think, and built Coastal shores. Rob, start us off.
Why did you pick there? What'd you see in the market? Did you just, like, throw a dart at the map or you went there on vacation and you were like, oh, we love this place. Like, why, why that area?
[00:03:11] Speaker C: Yeah, well, it definitely wasn't a dart on the map. There was a little bit of intentionality behind it. But, I mean, I think ultimately Jesse and I were just that young and dumb that we just didn't understand the full consequences of our decision probably at the time. So Jesse's parents actually had a place on Hilton Head. So we came down here off and on when we started dating. And then we grew up in Muncie, Indiana. We went to college at Ball State in Muncie, Indiana. Her. Her family was there, my family was there.
It's all we had ever known. And Jesse and I came down, came down here, I think, on our second anniversary, maybe something like that. And we were like, we should move here. And like, it made zero sense. And we just were like, if we were ever going to make this move, we had one little girl at the time, and we were like, now's the time to do it. We can always move back.
So we went home and went out to lunch with her family, my family, and announced that we were leaving. And I think they all wondered what the heck we were doing. But little over 25 years later, it's worked out.
[00:04:27] Speaker B: I know learning about your history, Rob and Jesse, you wanted to go down there and have more than your typical mo blow and go company.
When did you realize that this company could become a substantial business and not just a way to make a living, not a job, but like a significant.
The significant operation it is today. When did you realize that, Rob?
[00:04:48] Speaker C: Yeah, I think probably when I just started realizing that, like, how many people I'd start to talk to, and they were literally just surprised I showed up. You know, we set an appointment and they show up at 10 o' clock and they're shocked.
Then I tell them I'm going to get them a quote and they get it and there's like I can't believe you got me a quote. Of course, yes, please do the work. And it was just like I could build a business just by doing what I say I'm going to do. I don't even have to know anything about landscaping necessarily.
[00:05:15] Speaker B: Right.
[00:05:16] Speaker C: So that kind of started and then just the beauty of this place.
Most of the communities, commercial properties, residents, they all want to elevate their properties to the level of the natural beauty around here. The municipalities, the communities, they have all, they have a higher level of expectation which creates an opportunity to do high end landscaping work. So we've kind of grown up with the area. It was already a fast growing area when we got here and that's just, you know, exponentially continued to grow and the footprint is expanded. You know, lots of second, even third homes in this area for people.
Lots of people come down here and invest in commercial properties. And there's just a lot. Our ideal client, they just want things taken care of. They really don't want to be bothered a whole lot. They want a more all inclusive type landscape service, a premium level service, premium level of communication.
And they just, they don't mind pain, they just want to want things done correctly. Once we started figuring out that that was kind of the business model, we leaned into it.
[00:06:31] Speaker B: Jesse, when you look back at those early years, what did any, you had one little baby, then what were you focused on to get growing? Like, were you scared?
Do you remember what your thought process was like? That seems just to relate to people said to me, gosh, I can't believe you started a business when you were so young.
And like, I appreciate the accolades, but when I really sit there and think about it, I'm like, well, I mean, if I lost everything, it really didn't matter because I didn't have anything anyways. I know you think that there was great risk here, but like it was just a couple pickup trucks. It wasn't, it wasn't what I've got at risk now.
[00:07:07] Speaker D: Right, right.
So Rob has always had an entrepreneur mindset.
Before we moved down here, we owned a business up there. It was not two businesses. It wasn't, it was not landscaping. So when we moved down here, I knew he, you know, he wanted to start something. Looking back 24, 25 years ago, sometimes it feels like just yesterday. Other times it feels like forever ago. I was not personally involved in the business from the start. I had a full time job and I would help out when he needed help. And that could be anywhere from one weekend where we're on A large commercial property, just the two of us spreading. I don't. Do you remember how many bales?
[00:07:49] Speaker C: Like, hundreds of bales of pine straw.
[00:07:50] Speaker D: Hundreds of bales of pine straw to.
[00:07:51] Speaker C: We had a baby in a stroller and we were spreading pine straw.
[00:07:54] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:07:55] Speaker B: You know, you have a picture of that?
[00:07:57] Speaker C: I wish.
[00:07:58] Speaker D: I don't think we do to, you know, just helping him doing invoicing or monthly communication we had with our customers at the time.
So back then, I think my mindset was he needs to just get customers and get them invoiced and get paid so we can make payroll for our one or two employees plus our family to help support our family. So my mindset back then wasn't necessarily on growing. It was surviving. To be completely transparent, because like you said, like, if we lose everything, what have we really lost? But.
[00:08:32] Speaker B: And that's kind of a quip, I say. I mean, trust me, I didn't think that when I was in my 20s, I was scared to death. But just looking back at it pragmatically, let's not turn this into some. You know, like, I put it all on the line. And I mean, yes, I did, but it wasn't.
At the time, it felt like a lot. But looking back, it was smart what you did. Smart what I did.
[00:08:55] Speaker C: Yeah. And I did. I mean, I knew I didn't. You know, when I first moved down here, I didn't have a job, so I took a job selling copiers. And I'm aging myself now, but I was selling fax machines, too.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: Wow. Yeah.
[00:09:05] Speaker C: I had to wear a suit every day. And I was going door to door talking to lawyers, and it was awful.
And Jesse knew I was miserable. And she's like, you just need to quit. And I was like, well, if I quit, what am I going to do? And she was a property manager at the time. She goes, well, I have, like five properties. You could just cut the grass until you figure out what you want to do. And that kind of. That kind of started it. And I guess I really didn't want to go back to selling copiers and putting a suit on every day. So. Figured out how to make it work. Yeah.
[00:09:32] Speaker B: And you know what, folks? I think most successful companies, we don't start with the perfect facility.
You know, an embedded management team systems and an organizational chart. You start by somebody taking care of customers, doing good work, figuring it out, spreading pine mulch with the baby in the baby carriage, working a day job and mowing lawns at night. So let's talk a little Bit more business. One word that comes up repeatedly around Coastal Shores is premium.
Everybody says they provide a great service, Rob and Jesse. But what does premium actually mean to you two at Coastal Shores?
And what have you had to put in place, let's say, operationally, to make sure you're delivering as promised? Because in my interactions with you, too, you do what you say you would do. Like it, it matters. Even in just the planning we're doing here with Grow, I mean, you've been very proactive. Like, newsflash, you are. You two are not going to be hard to work with on this event. And we are going to show up and we're going to be like, wow, they're ready for us.
So what does premium actually mean to you? How do you keep it premium?
[00:10:37] Speaker C: Well, premium is one of our core values. And, you know, we don't take core values around here lightly.
And also, you know, premium is going above and beyond what is expected.
And it's easy to say that about our clients. I think we could sit here and we could talk all day, what premium looks from a landscaping standpoint. But really what we do, we first apply premium to how we care for our. Our team, and we care for our team in a premium way. We offer them a high level of benefits, a high level of training, just different opportunities, frankly, just a high level of care and respect.
And then, yes, we, through that, we earn their trust to hold them to a higher standard that provides premium care for our clients. You know, and then beyond that, it's, you know, we want to have premium trucks, trailers, equipment, fertilizer, whatever it might be.
[00:11:30] Speaker B: We.
[00:11:31] Speaker C: We want to.
To, you know, what is the premium standard now? Do we always hit it? No, we don't always hit it. But it's just that line that. How are we tracking with the premium line? Are we above it? Are we below it? What do we need to do to reach for it?
So it's just kind of. It's our standard of care. Standard of care for our clients, standard of care for our team.
[00:11:58] Speaker B: So if I'm. If I'm listening to this Grow show today, my initial question is, Marty, ask them how they do that. Like, I'm trying to grow and scale my company. I want to do great work. How do I get the great work done? Rob and Jesse, without having Rob and Jesse be involved in everything, what are you doing?
[00:12:14] Speaker C: Yeah, well, first, I think you got to. You got to set. Set the expectation. I think you got to.
I think you build out a great vision, mission values that defines that expectation.
And then you start putting people and processes in place that aim towards that embedded premium standard in your vision.
If you just. Too often, I think people talk about their core values or they talk about their vision, but they're not putting tangible, measurable tasks and strategies and things behind that that are aiming them towards that vision or towards that mission or towards that core value. And they drift, and they don't really even know why, because there's no. There's no measuring stick to. I think you need to have a measuring stick for. For all your. For your core values for your vision. It's easy to say, well, this is our efficiency number. Great. But, you know, how are you measuring success when it comes to culture and vision and core values and that kind of thing? So that's what we try to do every day. And I think a lot that starts with.
Starts with your vision and then, you know, embedding your core values and your vision and then putting some real tangible measuring sticks in there to know. To know how you're doing. If you're drifting, we talk about being anchored. Our. Our initiative for 2026 here is. Is anchored. And we want to be anchored to our vision without drifting. Even if we grow, whatever. Whatever happens, we want to be anchored to that vision.
[00:13:48] Speaker B: Well, and I'm coming to see you very soon on a Wednesday to sit through the SALT training. I'm excited to see that. I know Jesse, or Mama J, I believe she's affectionately known. I'm quite sure, Mama J, that in some of those meetings, we're calling out people that supported what Rob just talked about. Right.
Because we know that that is a tenet to developing a team.
It's not just the corrective behavior. It's the catching them doing things right.
And to do that in public so that everyone can see, man, Mama J and Rob are really happy if you take care of the customer. Mama J and Rob are really happy if you do your final cleanup and check it off and aspire that it's done. Those are reinforcing those behaviors that we want to have present in the organization.
One of the questions I have for you and one of the challenges, I think, when it comes to premium, you got a broad range of services that you offer. Maintenance, plant healthcare, seasonal color irrigation, enhancements, installation, more things. How do you decide what you should do? And then here's the kicker. Like, what do you decide to push off? Because a lot of your growth is coming through reputation and referrals.
And I know how this goes because I've been faced with it. Can you paint my garage?
Well, yeah, I could paint your garage, but that's not something my guy should be doing.
I can go get a, I can offer a concierge, I can have my painter paint your garage.
But gosh, it's 800 bucks. I mark it up 20%, 30%, it's 200 bucks. That's not really worth it. If the paint job goes sideways. That's not worth the brain damage.
Do you just refer people like how do you decide what makes sense to offer and what doesn't with the word premium?
[00:15:36] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I think it starts out just have, just really defining your ideal client. And you know, we're broadly, we, we talk about, you know, high end residential, commercial and development, but even, even more narrow into that. You know, we, we only work in certain communities.
You know, if you call in here, one of the first questions you're going to be asked is what community do you live in? And honestly, if certain ones we're just going to say, I'm sorry, we don't work in there and we do sometimes have a list of people we refer you to or whatever. But it just, we know our ideal client and we know if we work with these people, we're going to be able to do the type of work we want. And yes, I have drifted from that many times. Not as much anymore. But I got into the whole pressure, washing Christmas trees, you name it. I was doing all kinds of stuff. And sometimes when you're smaller, you have to do some of those kind of things. You know, there was a time I was just trying to make sure I could make mortgage. So but as you, if you really want to scale, you do need to decide who we're going to, who we're going to be.
Now if we can take on services that we know we can be successful at and we know it's going to add value to what we're providing. We're going to have a discussion around that, but we're not going to try to be all things to all people.
[00:17:00] Speaker B: And I think you're speaking to a lot. I mean, close to 25 years in business now. And that's the metamorphosis of a small business.
You find out what you're good at. I think you also get good at narratives like, Look, Mrs. Jones, could we do that? Yes. Is that what we do best? No, it's best if I get, let me give you the painter that Jesse and I have used at our house for years. He's great.
You do referrals. We do That I don't get kickbacks from some of those subs. All I ask of them is, listen, if I ask you to do something small at my shop or my house, just help me out. The first and foremost, what I want you to do is get back to my team looking for prices right away. Just be good to them and we'll just keep giving you work because you're not going to get rich off that. But as part of a service offering and being part of the. Yes. And being part of the solution for the client, like, that's worth a lot.
[00:17:50] Speaker C: Sure. Yeah.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: Let's move on to culture because, Jesse, I know this is where you stand tall and I want to make sure we hear a lot about culture from you. One of your real areas of passion are the core values and the reinforcement of them. The salt training, the other things that you do, your core values of generosity and power, premium and reputation.
Lots of companies have core values, Jesse. How do you make sure your core values just aren't words on a piece of paper?
[00:18:18] Speaker D: Well, Marty, like. Like most things in life, repetition creates rhythms and habits. So we don't just post them on the wall and walk by them each day, nor the field team members. These are words that not only want us to set us apart from others, but we want all of our guys to know this is a coastal shores way. It's. There's no exception to that which hopefully becomes natural for the team. It's. It's natural for them if they're a maintenance team and there's a trash can at the end of the driveway that's been empty that they wheel it back up to the drive to the garage. If they see a $20 bill on the ground, you know, at the gas station, that they take it to the cashier. They don't stick it in their pocket. So there's things that are an expectation to us that are our core values that these guys have. Have really embraced. One of the things that we do is during our weekly salt training, as you. As you previously referenced, we talk about them every week and the peers get to nominate one another. Peers can nominate peers. Supervisors can nominate anybody in the company. And I'll talk more about how we do that. Well, maybe at Grow or maybe later in this podcast, we'll see, but they can nominate each other and that has really helped these guys think about what our core values are and put them into practice, you know, and we don't want them just to demonstrate them at coastal shores. We want them to demonstrate them at home, too. Everything Every one of our core values you can take home with you.
[00:19:39] Speaker B: And that's. That's something I find fascinating. And you've got me on this one, Jesse, because I've just always been leery of going that far with it. So, like, I know when we've talked before and I'm learning more about coastal shores, you talk rather affectionately about developing the whole person.
Why is that so important? How do you. I guess maybe that's where the name Mama J comes from, is a term of endearment for you, being motherly like that in terms of a role model and an inspiration for them. But tell us a little bit about how you develop the whole person.
[00:20:16] Speaker D: Sure, sure. Yeah. And I will be the first to say this is not just about Mama J. Our entire company leadership team embraces this, our SALT training. That third Wednesday. The is life, and it's a life skill. This started way back when. The very first time that this came up, a team member was taking his check and paycheck and cashing it each week. And so we won't use his real name, but we'll say his name was Bobby. I said, bobby, where? How much does that cost you to cash your check? And he said, it cost me $10 a week, mama J. And I said, let's do some multiplication here. Let's Times that by 52. Do you know it costs you $520 a year to cash that check?
So we got all of our team members. They could get set up on bank accounts or the green dot card, whatever, Cash app, many more. I mean, there's lots of ways now that you can do it. Way back then, it wasn't a thing, but. And we got everybody set up on a direct deposit for those that still give paper checks. You know, you've. You either have to stand back there also and physically pass them out.
If not, you put them back there and you've got one field team member mad at the other one.
Somebody takes it, and then nobody knows where to. I mean, there's a lot of reasons we do it, but teaching them these little life skills that have made such an impact. And that was just one of them. I mean, we've done everything from. We had a baby doll in front of every single person and taught them how to change diapers. Do you know how many of our field team members have babies and they've never changed a diaper? Guess what? Now they do. But the reason. Reason we're so passionate about it is your personal life and your work life necessarily intersect. If you Have a messy home life or you wake up and Rob and I get in a fight and, you know, we come into work like given we're going to still see each other. Most spouses don't work together, but they necessarily intersect. So if we can help you at home, make that smoother, help you teach, make a generational impact, it's going to be easier at work. And same thing, if we can make work easier, you're going to go home a happier person. So that's why we're so passionate about it. I don't know if I'm allowed to do this and I didn't write this out on my thing, but ultimately it's down the road.
We would love to see the kingdom advanced and being kind to one another and teaching life skills that some people just don't know what they don't know. So if we can sprinkle a little bit of some of the life skills that are familiar to us, to them, we just believe in that generational impact that it's going to.
[00:22:46] Speaker B: Let me, let me share something with you because it is my podcast and we can say whatever we want here. Bishop Barron is a, is a Catholic bishop that was interviewing our vice president, J.D. vance, and my wife and I were listening to it and Bishop Barron said to J.D. vance, what impact do you think social media has on politics? And JD Vance said, Rob and Jesse, oh, man. Not really a fan.
I can't believe, you know, I have good friends that are on social media and I can't believe some of the things they say about their friends online.
And my wife and I were just like, yeah, it's, it's awful. And you mentioned kindness and you mentioned showing love. You know, we're not as good as you are at this stuff. The only thing I can tell you that we do that I think we treat our people well. Don't get me wrong, but I haven't had the guts yet to do what you're doing.
It does make me think we may start doing some of this stuff. That's why I'm excited to see what you're doing. That's always, you know. Yeah, I host Grow as far as the mc and it's my thing, but I'm always learning too. Like, this is exciting for me. When you start here, your name is on your locker on day one. And we think that matters, that maybe for the. I tell my team all the time, listen, for the first time in somebody's work life and we got a lot of 20 year olds for the first time in somebody's work life, they may show up at a place where it appears that the company they're working for cares about them. And okay, there may be some awkwardness. Guys don't want to learn how to change a diaper and may think this is silly. But, you know, the more I listen to you and the more I see the state of affairs and how nasty people get with one another. I think what you're talking about, Jesse, is a breath of fresh air, and I like it. I think kindness needs to be reinforced. I think it's best if we give people the benefit of the doubt. And you kind of touched a chord there with me, with what you said. I think it's great.
[00:24:42] Speaker D: We'll hold you accountable to getting it started, then we'll wait until after grow.
[00:24:46] Speaker B: Well, that sounds good. And so speaking of holding accountable, I think one of the challenges with the culture is you can't always be this nice, loving guy either. There may be a time where. Listen, listen, Jose, I've given you three chances and you're not doing it, so you can't work here anymore. And those are hard conversations. But it's not like everything's great. You go do what you want. As long as you work, like six out of eight hours, I'm fine. It's not that either, right?
[00:25:19] Speaker C: No, it can't be. And we work with a local business coach, and he, he. We were, we were talking about this because there is the times you feel like your culture is being taken advantage of.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:25:30] Speaker C: And we kind of came up with the term of this. We're not a culture of flattery. We're not just going to sit here. And I love that.
[00:25:37] Speaker B: We're not a flattery. That's going to be a sound bite. I love it.
[00:25:41] Speaker C: You know, we. So our, Our aim is to build enough trust, let our people know how much we care.
That way, when we need to have the hard conversations, they're going to be more receptive to it. Yeah, they know where we're coming from, care about them. We're not just being a jerk. We want them to get better so they can continue to work here because we know they are better because they work here and so does their family.
[00:26:10] Speaker B: I think that is the best point you two have made so far during the grow show here, that when somebody sees you coming, the respect is so immense that they know they're either going to get a compliment or, or they're going to get, you know, some corrective form of conversation. But whatever it is, it's fair because of all the other deposits you've made into their emotional bank account. And I think that's something that's lost. In fact, I often say. And sorry for my crass language that we suck at criticizing because we suck at compliments. We just. We end up. And I'm a lot older than both of you, but we end up becoming grumpy old men that are just here to about everything.
And I think you got to be careful. Your team has to hear the good, too. And all these little meanings, the soul training, the I care about you. We're going to teach Adam and your money better. All that's kind of like a deposit here that I may have to withdraw from one day. When I say, listen, you've not had a good week. You've tore up two pieces of equipment, you're late for work today. Like, what's going on?
So. And. And those are the things I think that balancing act of. Of being a leader and.
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[00:27:48] Speaker B: Let's talk about leadership and scaling. Rob, your role has obviously changed as the company's grown.
What Coastal Shores needed from you And Mama J 15 years ago, not we need, you know, today. And then the reverse. Like, what does the company need from you today that you weren't very good at doing? So for an owner who's listening, trying to grow.
What are some things that have worked at Coastal Shores when it was smaller that you absolutely stopped, stopped working on as you got bigger? Like, we couldn't do that anymore. Is there a system, a process, or. Talk to us a little bit about the pains of growing.
[00:28:21] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I think just at a high level, just the idea of me understanding, you know, every property, every job, every client, being aware of the ins and outs of everything every day, it was exhausting for me, and it was exhausting for. I was like a blanket on the team, and I was holding. I'm holding them back.
So just having kind of an understanding that I. I don't need to know that we forgot A tree at the Smith house. I don't need to know that. I, you know, I need to be more aware of are we consistently forgetting plant material on jobs and get to the root cause of that, like why, why is that happening? You know, that kind of thing. So just that transition from having knowledge and awareness and feeling like I had to control every detail of everything every day to just functioning more as a coach and a mentor and making sure that our day to day decisions are aligning with our vision, mission, values.
I think that's been the biggest transition for me over the last really.
I probably was saying I was doing that, but I've really, in reality, I've only been doing that probably for the last 18 months or so, really trying to put that into practice.
[00:29:40] Speaker B: People are going to love grow because of how relatable to you.
I can't see everyone watching this right now or listening, nodding their heads, but I can almost assure you they are like, they get that. And it's like a fine line between taking the monkey and just like, okay, how bad are they really going to screw that up if I, if I jump in? I've just told them I don't trust them and I got to start trusting people. Jesse, what comes to mind as you listen to Rob and his journey and then your own journey? Has anything changed in your leadership style as well?
[00:30:12] Speaker D: For sure. One quick story from what Rob just said that happened just over the weekend. I mean, his, his involvement. Yeah, off script. His involvement has always been selling and leading. And I was heavily involved in production for several years. And this past weekend, really the last six months, but this sticks out. This last weekend he asked me if I knew a last name of a customer and I said I didn't. He said, apparently we have a job going on there. And we just both looked at each other and smiled like neither of us had even heard the name.
[00:30:44] Speaker C: We were so happy. We had this big job going on that we didn't know anything.
[00:30:47] Speaker D: We didn't know anything about. Like, yeah.
[00:30:49] Speaker B: And I think that's indicative of where you've gone with the company. I was talking with a guy the other day at his office and we're doing a big job at his office.
And I texted him later and I said, dan, my apologies, I just found out that you're also a client. And he goes, yeah, I was going to tell you, but I didn't want to bother you and have you feel bad. I'm really happy with your company. And I was like, cool. And those, those things do make you Feel like, okay, what I've. What I've created here is working.
Like I'm not having to do all this. That's a good thing.
[00:31:20] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. I think a few years ago, I would have. I would have panicked in that moment.
[00:31:24] Speaker B: Well, I still sort of panic, and I. Because I go back to, you know, when I was 4 million and I knew all that stuff, and I still panic a little, and then I catch myself and I'm like, no, that's a good thing. Your team's got it. You can't possibly know everywhere you are if you do that, you're not focused on the right things.
[00:31:41] Speaker D: Right.
[00:31:42] Speaker B: When we think about the hardest parts of growth, people, cash sales, delegation, middle management, quality control.
Which one's been the toughest for you two, and why all the above?
[00:31:55] Speaker C: Is that okay?
You know, I mean, I think I.
I mean, everything's connected as you know. It seems like you kind of get one thing figured out, and there's the cause and effect of what happened. You get that figured out, but then that pulls another lever over there and. So true, you know?
[00:32:15] Speaker D: So
[00:32:17] Speaker C: I guess probably the idea, you know, of middle management, if you will, I think just having the understanding of the need for those roles, you know, I think it's kind of been a hard, hard thing for me, I guess.
Um, you know, I. I like to run somewhat lean, but I also know lean can be detrimental to scaling and a lot of things.
[00:32:45] Speaker D: Right.
[00:32:45] Speaker B: There's a fine line there. Right?
[00:32:47] Speaker C: Yeah. And, I mean, I think I've shared with you 2023, we were the most profitable, Ace. And I thought it was the greatest thing in the world. And everybody was telling me I needed to get software, I needed to build a building, I needed to add managers. And I was like, what the heck for? I was just the most profitable, Ace. Well, I can tell you what happened the next year. I was not the most profitable.
So we spent the last two years
[00:33:14] Speaker B: kind of rebuilding from my underpinnings to the foundation. I mean, we're going through some of the same stuff. We opened up another location, and it's not been easy. I mean, it requires more time and money. And if you believe in yourself, the stakes are higher than they were 25 years ago for you. But it's the same thing.
You're. You're putting it all on the line for something that you know a lot about, and you're. You're trying to work on.
Is there a mistake that taught you an important business lesson?
[00:33:44] Speaker C: Well, I think.
And I'm still. I think We're. I'm. We're always working through this. Just. And it kind of relates back to that. Middle management, honestly, is. You know, we've been blessed with a lot of amazing people that have been with, along with us a long time on leadership.
Obviously a huge part of our success, but everybody has their capacity and their limits and just having an understanding of when that role needs to be divided, when the same person can't do production and operations anymore, when the same maintenance person can't be account manager, operations manager, production manager, when the same person can't oversee enhancement and construction, all of those things. Just knowing, you know, I've probably delayed on. On most of those decisions.
[00:34:34] Speaker B: I get it.
[00:34:35] Speaker C: And it's. It's been detrimental to our. To our growth. And also just, I mean, full transparency just to the person.
[00:34:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:42] Speaker C: You know, so I. I think it's a. It's not a bad thing to take some responsibility off of somebody in the effort to allow them to grow and the organization to grow.
[00:34:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Jesse, what about you? What's a mistake that you learned from?
[00:35:01] Speaker D: I think, speaking owner to owner, we never. Nobody will ever handle the money like we would as owners.
[00:35:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:11] Speaker D: We also have to let go.
[00:35:12] Speaker B: Right.
[00:35:13] Speaker D: And I think that control thing is a weakness of mine that I've had to let go of over the years. And the micromanagement part, I wished I had done that sooner in some roles because we know if you have total control, you're truly not empowering, which is one of our core values.
[00:35:31] Speaker C: That's true.
[00:35:32] Speaker B: Very well said. Another great sound bite.
[00:35:36] Speaker D: So I think for me personally, it's been letting go sooner. And if I can't let go sooner, then I haven't done my job to train my team.
[00:35:45] Speaker B: I love it.
Well, let's morph into something here. And I have so much respect for the two of you as a married couple. Get along your grandparents. I just, I think the world of what you're doing personally and professionally.
But I want to talk about something that I think is unique here. You two built this together.
From my perspective and vantage point, Rob tends to drive more of the business and leadership. You know, the leadership side. Jesse, you're involved in the culture, the people, the training, the. The. The part of the business that's kind of like the glue that keeps everything together.
How did you two figure out being married, going home together at night? I don't know. Do you drive to work together in the morning? You drive separately.
How did you figure out, like, your individual roles? I know, like ryan and Annette McCarthy and Des Moines, Iowa, R.J. similar situation. They have a wonderful relationship and they've got their areas carved out. Like, how did you do this? How did you figure it out?
That.
[00:36:46] Speaker C: Well, I think we're, we're still figuring it out probably to some extent, but we, we have kind of fallen into this really, this, this sweet spot, just really based on what the business needs from each one of us.
You know, I know my role at this point is to set the vision and work on strategy and look for root causes of issues and coach, mentor, whatever it might be. And Jesse has, you know her, she's really many cases. She's, she's, she's the one running the business. You know, she, she's, she has more knowledge of the day to day than I do at this point, but she's. So she's applying kind of our vision as owners on a day to day basis.
[00:37:38] Speaker B: What a wonderful feeling to have somebody like that that you trust implicitly there. I mean, I can only im how much confidence and energy that gives you to go do other things. Knowing that she's there watching that, that's huge.
[00:37:54] Speaker C: 100%.
[00:37:55] Speaker B: Jesse, what's your perspective on it? Is he right?
[00:38:00] Speaker D: He is right. I think over time, some of our natural skills and talents and roles have evolved with growth. I mean, I'd say the last 12 to 18 months has been pivotal in our business and part of that's identifying what we really need to focus on. Because for so many years, we were both kind of, kind of doing the same thing in our own way.
[00:38:24] Speaker B: And, and that probably drove your staff a little crazy, I bet.
[00:38:28] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, and we, we just. What's your role? And we both just say, we'd both just say owners.
[00:38:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:34] Speaker C: And yeah, we are, but we're also these other functions in the company and they needed to be defined.
[00:38:41] Speaker B: Well, it's awesome to listen to you. I'm blessed. I have a good marriage. I've been married to Lisa 33 years.
There's a lot of people, and I have two of my children in the business. Lisa does some things here with our events, but it's not, it's not a ton. And people always ask, does Lisa work at the office? And I say, no, she doesn't even know how to get here. And sometimes people look at me like, what? I'm like, I'm kidding.
So I just admire, you know, it takes a lot of energy to make a business work. And the fact that you two have figured out a way to leverage each of your respective energies together in A cooperative fashion that pushes the business forward.
I think that's fantastic. And I'm envious of that. I just, I think it's great. I know how much fun it is for me to work with my son and my daughter and what energy they bring me and, and how proud I am of them. I also, it's made family dinners and things. I have to remember that I don't want to be talking work there now. And my rule kind of is to be honest with both of you. If they bring it up, that's fine. I try not to, because I don't. I want them to just be family when we need to be family. But the fact that you folks get along and what you're doing, I think is, is great. It's awesome.
Let's move on to technology.
So one thing I've learned about successful businesses is that they're never really finished. It's kind of like a garden. You're always working.
Rob, how do you decide whether a new technology, a system, an idea, whatever, is actually worth investing in versus just being a shiny object?
I know that you're running Aspire.
I know that you're fans of it. I know you're getting it more and more implemented, and rumor has it you're going to give us a run for our money at running Aspire. So I'm excited about that. But what's something you're doing at Coastal Shores today that you weren't doing three years ago that's made the company noticeably better? You mentioned software like somebody told you had to get that was that one thing. What else? And I want to hear from both of you on this.
[00:40:43] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I think definitely, you know, I mean, we're the probably unlike, not unlike many, many companies in the, you know, 2, 3 million dollar range or below. You know, we were QuickBooks and Google Docs and Legal Pads, you know, just whatever. And, and so yeah, we made the decision and, and we, we brought in Element and we brought in Aspire.
[00:41:07] Speaker B: Yep, two great, two great platforms.
[00:41:10] Speaker C: We involved the whole. Jesse and I decided we, this was not going to be her and I's sole decision. We brought in, we brought in the whole leadership team. They sat through all the demos and ultimately there was more or less a vote and, and the team voted on Aspire.
So in my, my take on that was, okay, guys, we decided this.
Now we are all in. I do not want to hear because, you know, luckily I'm, I'm fortunate enough to be in, in peer groups for a long time and I Just heard a lot of implementation frustrations.
[00:41:44] Speaker B: It's crazy.
[00:41:45] Speaker C: A lot of companies that are paying a lot of money and they use something for a couple of months and then they decide it's trash.
[00:41:51] Speaker B: They decide it's tr, then they go try something else.
[00:41:54] Speaker C: And the software is not.
[00:41:58] Speaker B: I heard Jim Calli say one time, the best software is the one you use.
So if you're not using Aspire, what makes you think you're going to use something else? If you're not using lmn, I mean, it's, it's preposterous. It's the one that you decide to go with. Dig in and make it work.
[00:42:13] Speaker C: That's right. And you're gonna. If you're gonna find something you don't like with every single software, there's not
[00:42:19] Speaker B: a perfect one out there, 100%.
[00:42:22] Speaker C: So, yeah, we, we went in, we went into it because I had seen other frustrations, other failures and implementation.
I was very adamant about how we were going to implement Aspire. And we went in Headfirst and we put a hard.
[00:42:44] Speaker D: We.
[00:42:44] Speaker C: We set a day that we were switching and we switched. Like, we went live on the day we were supposed to go live on, and we did it. And it's. It's been hard. Now, don't, don't get me wrong, but I get it.
[00:42:54] Speaker B: It is hard right in.
[00:42:57] Speaker C: The implementation never stops, too. I think that's. That's another, I guess, thing that people maybe tend to believe that, like, oh, after a year, we'll be good. No, it. It. The implementation never ends.
[00:43:12] Speaker B: No, I mean, it's. And you got it.
[00:43:13] Speaker C: Technology, Tech. Technology is always improving.
[00:43:16] Speaker B: And it's your point. You got to stay on it. You can't let. You can't go and find. What are you using a spreadsheet for? I didn't really like the way Aspire. No. That spreadsheet is Gandhi. Get that out of here. You're back on Aspire. Really. Aspire is just a bunch of spreadsheets. Use it.
[00:43:32] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. So it's. It's been good. I mean, obviously, yeah, it's had some challenges, but also, I mean, I don't want to go down a rabbit trail, but we're really, we're really trying to, quote, unquote, get younger with our staff, too. And those folks coming in now, right. It's no big deal.
[00:43:49] Speaker B: Handed a pack of papers and say, this is your job.
They're going to look at you like, what are you doing to me?
[00:43:54] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:43:55] Speaker B: So, Jesse, anything to add there?
[00:43:58] Speaker D: I would Say, in the last three years, we have the tech technology. I feel like we're a technology company that does landscape because we have. You have to. You have to if you want. We want to work smarter, not harder. I mean, we've changed, changed our payroll system. We've added Aspire. We use Greeniest for training.
We have Weathermatic irrigation controllers. I mean, and new hires know this. Like, we are a technology company. And if you still have a flip phone, you're going to be left behind.
Not that you have to have a smartphone, but we'll, we'll figure that out. But it's the way we're doing things. And we are, again, we don't put software in and then just put it on the bookshelf. I mean, we are fully engaged now. Aspire, we're three, almost three years in, and we're ever evolving, just like the software is. And we never want to sleep on that. I mean, I, I still to this day have a calendar block for two hours every week to work on Aspire. It's three years later, because I want
[00:45:00] Speaker B: that kind of attitude that's needed to make it work.
[00:45:03] Speaker D: Right? Yeah, right.
[00:45:05] Speaker B: And if you're doing that now, what can you expect from the rest of the team?
[00:45:09] Speaker C: And honestly, if you have that mindset, the software will pay for itself. We've been kind of amazed at just how we continue to find just little nuggets that make life easier, that make things more efficient, that make us more profitable and so forth.
[00:45:26] Speaker B: So I'm asking almost every business leader that I come in contact with either on the Grow show, on the road here in Dayton, when I go to lunch, like, how are you thinking about AI? Where do you believe AI or technology can have the biggest impact on landscaping companies the next three to five years?
[00:45:46] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, for me right now, how I am mostly using it is I am heavily leveraging it to just analyze data metrics, KPIs, process creation, tool creation.
I love, I love just taking an idea and implementing it. And AI allows me to do that, like, instantly. Where I can walk out of a sales meeting, then that afternoon I can have a new sales scorecard created based on something we talked about a couple hours ago. I love that. And then, yeah, just getting our.
Just now we've decided we're going to move forward with the Claude for Teams platform.
I think it's important for the whole company to be using one platform. And the cool thing about Claude, I'm not here advertising for Claude, but it interacts with your Google Docs. So if you do have a lot of Google Docs, like a lot of our processes live in Google Docs, Claude will extract data from those things. When it's, when as you're asking for
[00:46:49] Speaker D: data,
[00:46:52] Speaker C: that's the biggest thing for me. And I know, you know, like Aspire, they're going to be rolling out their AI kind of integration before long and some of the other softwares and it's just going to really make getting the information needed to run your business much, much easier. And just those little details.
[00:47:11] Speaker B: What are you spending on Claude? What are you spending on Claude Team? A month?
[00:47:16] Speaker D: I think 212amonth?
[00:47:18] Speaker C: Are we 212? We're a little over 200amonth or something like that, I think.
[00:47:22] Speaker B: No, it's, it's, it's pretty, pretty peanuts to have something so powerful as that at your fingertips.
[00:47:29] Speaker C: It's, it's great. It's great. And I, I mean like I said, just the power to, to analyze data that normally, I mean first you gotta collect all the data, then you gotta organize it, then like then try to study it. Now it's just kind of like it just happens.
[00:47:47] Speaker B: Anything to add there on the impact technology will have the next few years?
[00:47:52] Speaker D: Our eyes are, we're open to keeping up with technology. Times like I can't, we can't say that we are not going to implement new technology for the next 12 months. Our team would laugh at us because they know we're always again trying to work smarter, not harder. And if we can help them make their job easier, I mean even from our sales guys going out, I mean, you know, anybody can dump, take a picture and dump it in AI right now, which can also backfire on you. But using it all for the positive. Rob, Rob's always been a big, not a pusher because he, like he said with Aspire, he, he gets our leadership involved and everybody needs to say yes because you're, everybody needs to have, buy in on this. It's not something that we just purchase it and just say that we use it. I mean there, there's a reason behind it. I don't see us slowing down with technology at all.
[00:48:47] Speaker B: No. And I know in our peer groups we continue to share best practices. We've got quite a powerful thing we have Ace Connect, the Dove Mountain. If you're interested in our peer groups, there's a discovery portion of that. Check it out. We'll have it in the show notes. But we got a lot of yin and yanging going on with all of our 200 and almost 250 members in our peer groups. Pretty powerful community that's sharing what they're using in terms of AI and technology. So it's. It's pretty fun.
[00:49:13] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. You listen to the Grow show. So you already know that my team and I have information that can help take your business to the next level, the next step. Join us at GROW 2027 in Savannah, Georgia, in February. Tickets are on sale now, but the price goes up by $200 per person on November 1st. So save your seat and save yourself some. Some money by visiting growgroupinc.com I'll see you there
[00:49:38] Speaker B: in a few short months. I always humorously say you're going to have approximately a thousand twelve hundred landscapers rifling through your underwear drawers.
So let's, let's talk about next February.
We're bringing a whole ton of landscape professionals to Savannah, Georgia. We're going to invade Coastal Shores.
I've opened up Grunder Landscaping. We got a field trip coming in here tomorrow, so I know what it's like. We had Grow here, hundreds of people looking behind the curtain.
Rob, I'm going to ask you first, like, why in the world did you agree to do this?
[00:50:10] Speaker D: Well,
[00:50:12] Speaker C: you know, you said it before, to host Grow, you have to have somewhat of an ego. So, yes, probably. There's probably a little bit of that
[00:50:19] Speaker B: involved, but you have to. I don't mean that in a bad way. Like, what, we're going to show up at Coastal Shores, and it's going to be the worst day that Coastal Shores has ever presented themselves. No, it's going to be the best day.
[00:50:29] Speaker C: And honestly, I guess probably, what, three years ago when, when Summit hosted grow.
[00:50:35] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:50:36] Speaker C: In San Antonio, we were on the bus ride back and I just said out loud, I think I was talking to Jesse and Tommy Cole heard me say it, that I think we could host Grow someday. And Tommy overheard me and he's like, you absolutely could. And then next, I know Vince was calling me and, you know, and there's nothing overly special about Coastal Shores in general. I mean, you know, I think we're.
We are a very relatable company. I think we're. We're located in a beautiful, beautiful place that lots of people want to come visit. But we're excited to share what we're doing here. We're excited to.
To help where we can help. And then I know, you know, through peer groups, we're going to learn a lot from the people coming to learn from us.
[00:51:19] Speaker B: Oh, and I think your team is going to be amazed at how good they really are. That's probably the biggest takeaways that we see out of the folks that host grow is that their team feels better about themselves and what they're doing. That they realize what they're doing is pretty special.
And I understand your humility there and saying it's not that big a deal what we're doing. The consistency. You've grown something from the ground up. You weren't from the area.
You still have a successful marriage. I mean I could go on for 20 minutes here talking about what's how so much of what you're doing is impressionable on minds and excited to see and learn from Jesse. What do you want people to see about your team and culture that would be really hard to communicate today on the podcast?
[00:52:09] Speaker D: Obviously I'm excited about for everybody to see the SALT program because I think as much as people don't want to get involved in people's personal lives, I think it's a necessity not only to impact them and their family and their community, but they ultimately have more buy in. We do, we do an annual training day at Coastal Shores usually in January and or it's every January and we always have guys give their testimonies that want to. They volunteer to do it and their testimony 100% of the time has to do assault training and what, how it's changed their personal life.
You know the hard thing with, with the SALT program and the, and the personal part is you have to be intentional. It's not going to just, it's not going to just happen and we'll talk way more about this but you know, if Rob would have given up the very first, I don't know, four to eight to 12 weeks of this training program, guys sitting on mowers in a the 70s warehouse with a light that takes seven minutes to actually come on and guys smoking and not really paying attention. Like if Rob hadn't have given up, had a given up back then like we wouldn't be where we are today. So I think the other thing that I hope people learn is what I still love, hate and love relationship with this but we're going to make mistakes, we're going to fail. But it's an opportunity to get better and grow. Like that's one of our brand promises is we are always improving and if you look at that and just ream your team and fire the customer and what have you really learned from that? So I hope that's something that people learned from their time with us. We didn't get to where we are today. And we're still learning and growing every single day by not making mistakes, because we sure have.
[00:53:57] Speaker B: So what do you hope someone steals from coastal shores? And I don't mean literally like a truck or a cell phone or something, but what's an idea process, a system, maybe a mindset that you hope someone sees and takes home and puts to work on the Monday when they get back?
[00:54:13] Speaker C: Well, I think just the idea that, that we're not just. We don't. We're not just a landscape company. Like you could. You could.
These companies that, that we own can make an impact.
[00:54:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:54:28] Speaker C: An impact on somebody's life, an impact on the community.
[00:54:32] Speaker B: So.
[00:54:32] Speaker C: Well, and, you know, if you think about the number of people that we all employ, like you take that room at Grow and you just. You got a thousand people there. Well, that thousand people represents 100,000. I don't know how many.
[00:54:49] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, if you take into all the vendors and families and everything. Yeah.
[00:54:54] Speaker C: It's so that multiplying effect that you can have just, just because somebody works at your company is humbling. But it's also just. It's a huge responsibility and we don't take it lightly.
And we've also seen the other side of it. Like, we don't have people quit, like they want to work here, and we have really tough conversations and people don't just storm out after. And like Jesse said, it's just intentionally deciding to show up day after day, doing the right thing things.
[00:55:28] Speaker B: Yeah. All right, let's do some rapid fire. I'm going to give you some questions. I don't want you to overthink them. Just throw out.
Rob, greatest business lesson you've ever learned.
[00:55:39] Speaker C: Oh, geez.
I think probably just making the decision to be. Be a lifelong learner.
[00:55:46] Speaker B: I love it. Jesse, greatest people lesson you've learned.
[00:55:51] Speaker D: I already referenced this, but we're going to make mistakes, we're going to fail. Learn from it. Grow, get better. Don't dwell on it.
[00:55:58] Speaker B: Love it. This is for both of you. Jesse, what's the hardest thing about owning a landscaping company?
[00:56:05] Speaker D: I don't know if this is landscape specific, but it is for us if there are other non landscape owners. But I never shut down.
[00:56:13] Speaker B: Okay. Never shut down. Rob, what about for you the hardest thing?
[00:56:17] Speaker C: I think just the daily decision to control what I can control.
[00:56:21] Speaker B: Rob, what's the most rewarding thing about owning a landscaping company?
[00:56:25] Speaker C: I think, like we've talked about, just hearing the stories of life change.
[00:56:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
It's Cool. Jesse, what about you?
[00:56:32] Speaker D: He's still my answer. I put impacting lives.
[00:56:37] Speaker B: What's one thing you're working to get better at right now, Jesse?
[00:56:43] Speaker D: Not over committing at work.
I.
I'm a fixer.
[00:56:48] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:56:48] Speaker D: So people come to me with a lot of stuff.
[00:56:50] Speaker B: That's the mama J. And you, Rob, what about you?
[00:56:54] Speaker C: I think I'm working every day just to lead with. With more gratitude, with more joy and, and not like I said, just control what I can control and lead. Lead and love.
[00:57:05] Speaker B: Well, yep, I could do that too. I love that. All right, finish this sentence. Jesse, if you come to Savannah For GROW 2027, you absolutely have to pay attention to blank when you visit Coastal Shores.
[00:57:19] Speaker D: Our team's buy in.
[00:57:21] Speaker B: Okay. Teams buy in.
[00:57:22] Speaker C: Rob, I think our intentionality.
[00:57:25] Speaker B: Intentionality, okay. Sounds like salt too, which is part of all that. That throws it.
[00:57:30] Speaker D: I felt like I gave that for every answer. Marty.
[00:57:31] Speaker B: I know, but I get what you're saying. I'm excited to come down and see it. We'll be seeing you soon. I'll be posting more on it. Rob and Jesse, thank you. Thanks for showing your vulnerability. I'm excited for our listeners to meet you, but I'm even more excited to be honest with you, for them to come see what you've built. And here's what I want everyone listening to understand. When we do these grow tours, folks, we're not taking you to a perfect company. There's no perfect landscaping company. We're taking you to a successful company where real people are working through many of the exact same challenges you're working through. How do we find and develop good people? How do we create consistency? How do we deliver a premium service?
[00:58:11] Speaker C: Right.
[00:58:11] Speaker B: Rob and Jesse, how do we grow without losing the culture that we had when we were small?
How does the owner's role change as the company grows? How do we build a business that keeps getting better?
That's what we're going to study when we go to visit Rob and Jesse's coastal shores. And you're not just going to hear from Rob and Jesse. You're going to walk through their operation in its entirety. You're going to meet their people. You're going to see their systems. You're going to be able to ask questions. Grow 2027 is February 17th, 18th and 19th. Beautiful. Savannah, Georgia. If you're serious about getting better in 2027, Rob, Jesse, Marty and my whole team want you there, go to grow group inc.com grow hyphen 2027 or just google grow group, grow. It'll come up. We're all over the Internet. Get registered. We're rapidly coming towards the deadline for early bird pricing. Why would you wait and blow money? Buy your plane tickets now. Get in the room block at the hotel.
Rob and Jesse, I can't wait to bring everybody to Savannah. I say this every year and we've been able to do it. I think this is going to be our best grow ever. And thanks for being with me today on the Grow Show.
[00:59:24] Speaker C: Absolutely, Marty.
[00:59:25] Speaker D: Thank you.
[00:59:25] Speaker C: We're looking forward to hosting, everybody.
[00:59:27] Speaker B: All right, well, that's going to do it, folks. For this week's edition of the Grow show. If you haven't done so already, subscribe to the Grow show and if you can give it a rating or share a comment that helps more success minded landscape professionals find us. And if you really want to help us, share that YouTube link or take it out on your phone right now and text it to someone on your team or a fellow landscape professional that you think would benefit from what we're doing here at the Grow Show. Thanks for joining us this week on the Grow Show. We'll talk to you next week.
[00:59:58] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to the Grow show and a special thanks to Aspire, Bob Yard and Exmark for making this episode possible. We'll talk to you next week.
