Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to the Grow Show Powered by Steel. On the Grow show, we share ideas, tips, tactics and insights to help you grow your landscaping business. Based on our team's 40 years of experience running a landscaping company and working with other owners and their teams to do the same, new episodes are released weekly on Wednesdays. Here's your host, Marty Grunder.
[00:00:22] Speaker B: This is Marty Grunder from Grunder Landscaping Co. And the Grow Group. Thanks for downloading the Grow Show Powered by Steel. This is episode number 100, folks. Very exciting and we have a very, very special guest today. Today we have the very first team member from Grunder Landscaping Company on with us today. Rich Grunder, who is my younger brother. We're going to have a lot of fun. But first, a reminder. You can get the latest edition of the Grow show delivered to your phone, tablet or computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts or Watch us on YouTube for an enhanced learning experience. The Grow show is the greatest thing said since people who send compliments in. Our first snow event was a storm that brought 9 to 14 inches of snow in our area and then followed up two days later with another four inches. It was a bear, folks. Really tough on all of us to be our first event. We got through it. We learned a ton. We had to deal with some frustrated clients. That's part of growth, folks. You lick your wounds, you own it, you get better, and you tackle the next one. We did get some complaints. We dealt with them, but there was a lot of compliments, too. And man, were those compliments a blessing. We use them to motivate the team and congratulate them. And it reminded me of all the people that I probably take for granted that help me and my teams. And I need to make sure I'm telling them when they do a good job. A thank you is a very powerful tool indeed. Speaking of telling people, thank you. I owe a lot of thanks to my younger, better looking, more athletic, smarter and richer brother, Rich, who's joining us on the Grow show today. Rich, welcome to the Grow Show.
[00:01:59] Speaker C: Thanks for having me. It's funny to hear you talk about snow removal. I hadn't thought much about our history with that, but there were some funny stories in that world too, aren't there?
[00:02:08] Speaker B: Well, I'm having trouble, like, hopefully I can do this in a serious nature talking with you because normally when you and I get together, it's. There's a lot of joking around and there's a lot of fun. Why don't you tell everybody a little bit about yourself you're in Seattle, Washington now. You work for a very large financial services company. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and your family.
[00:02:29] Speaker C: I guess we'll start with when you and I were living together as kids. Right. So grew up outside of Dayton, Ohio. I guess we'll talk more about when you slash. We launched the company. Right. But you know the story from when we were younger. We played a lot of baseball. Grew up out in farm country, so we were outside a lot. Went to ultra High school, as did you. I started at Clemson University and then transferred back to the University of Dayton where I graduated from in 1992. Worked with you into kind of off and on until 1995 or 6, I suppose, and then started working in the medical device sales industry. Eventually moved to Seattle in 1998 and transitioned over to Wealth Management 2001. So I lived in Seattle now for closing in on what, 26 years, I guess. My wife Christina grew up here in Seattle and we have a son who is now 17 years old. He's a junior at a local high school.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: And he's fun and I call him Repeat. I'm very fond of Peter. He's a chip off the old block with some of his sense of humor. You neglected to fill in Alaska. Tell us what you did in Alaska for a few months.
[00:03:36] Speaker C: Yeah, so that's kind of what led me to Seattle really. I spent a couple of summers in Alaska fighting forest fires. At least that was the premise. Although that's very weather fire dependent. So we did a lot of other things up there. But I kind of got the bug for the mountains and the water from my time in Alaska and that's really what primarily drew me to Seattle and that's why I moved here, which I think I said in 1998. It's probably not uncommon. I don't do as much of those things out in the mountains and on the water as what I probably thought I would at one time. But it's a great place and I'm very happy to live here.
[00:04:08] Speaker B: And I think you know this. I've always admired your try. You. You would go do things I would never in a million years think of doing and I just, I couldn't do it. I don't have your guts. And, and it's amazing. Let's talk landscaping. We had some wonderful great aunts. They. They were our mother's aunt and they're therefore would make us our great aunt.
[00:04:28] Speaker C: I'm already laughing.
[00:04:30] Speaker B: I know. And, and how much can I say? Yeah, exactly. Aunt Tad was a. She was a brilliant entrepreneur. She had three different companies she was involved with. And she lived with her sister Mildred, who was a. A baker and a heck of a cook. We got started mowing her lawn. And I think in a lot of ways that was what kind of showed me, with your help, that God, we could turn this into a business.
What do you remember about taking care of Mildred and Tad's yard?
[00:05:00] Speaker C: Let's see, a couple of things. One, I mean, just a comment that I didn't appreciate until later in life and you touched upon it. But Aunt Tad, you talk about somebody who was ahead of her time, right? I don't think I had any appreciation of that then.
[00:05:12] Speaker B: No.
[00:05:12] Speaker C: You said she had quite a professional career during a time when a lot of women did not. Right. So there was obviously a lot of drive and determination in her. That was not obvious to me at the time. But looking back on it, and then Mildred, similarly. I mean, she was a battle ax. She did not mess around. Right. So.
[00:05:27] Speaker B: No, no.
[00:05:28] Speaker C: In terms of what I remember about working, mowing the lawns at their house, a couple of things. One, I remember that old snapper lawnmower.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:05:36] Speaker C: Which I think was actually self propelled, which was sort of cutting edge technology at that time.
[00:05:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:42] Speaker C: We used to fight over who would get that one. Who got the old.
[00:05:45] Speaker B: Get the push. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
[00:05:49] Speaker C: I also remember when their house got broken into. Do you remember that?
[00:05:52] Speaker B: I do, Yep.
[00:05:54] Speaker C: Which I think they would just call us to help with things in general. But I remember being there when they were dusting the fingerprints on their cars and all that. And I don't know that that was during the.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: They got some cleaned out. I, I think that was an inside job. Somebody had to know they had a bunch of jewelry and stuff. And if you remember, Great Uncle Bob said he was gonna hook an electric fence up to all the doorknobs and light everybody's tail up that tried to.
He probably did do it. Do you remember when you got in trouble for giving Aunt Mildred Pop Rocks to Candy?
[00:06:24] Speaker C: You mentioned that recently. And I can't say I remember that clearly, but I'm sure she was happy with me.
She never liked me anyhow. That didn't help.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: Well, they, they did like me. And you know why? It was because of my red hair. And the red hair in the Roamer family, that's what they like. Sadly, my hair isn't very red anymore. But if, you know.
[00:06:46] Speaker C: Well, I'm just thinking something. I do remember about that that you may transition to. But that was well before, certainly, I had any concept that you were building a business, and probably you did either. But they would pay us in cash and we'd run down to the stop and go and buy basically basketball cards with our money.
[00:07:01] Speaker B: Baseball cards. Well, that's what I was saying. Baseball cards and Cosmic Candy. Those. The candy you would put in your mouth. And Aunt Mildred was in her 70s and you told her to try it, that it was really good. And she put it in her mouth. It was run around yelling, spitting it out.
[00:07:16] Speaker C: I don't remember that. Sorry.
[00:07:18] Speaker B: Yes, and then when mom came to pick us up, she said that damn rich gave me this stuff that I put in my mouth and was cracking and popping all over the place.
[00:07:28] Speaker C: Well, maybe that wasn't very nice of me, but it was better for her than those Vantage cigarettes she smoked anyway, right?
[00:07:34] Speaker B: No, it was. Oh, Vantage or Lucky Strikes.
[00:07:36] Speaker C: Vantage. I don't know why I remember that. Right.
[00:07:40] Speaker B: No, I remember because you and I tried a couple of them on the side of the house and I barfed. That was the last time I put a cigarette in my mouth. What was your first thought when I asked you to be the first employee of Grunder Landscaping or when you started helping me?
[00:07:54] Speaker C: I can't say I remember any particular moment where that happened. Right. It just sort of happened. I think we both, at least knew we wanted to make some money. And we knew, having grown up where we did. We had the Kubota tractor with the rear mount mower. We had a push mower. I don't even know if we owned a weed eater at the time. Yeah, but that just sort of happened. I don't know. I think it was just the sincere desire to figure out a way to try to make some money. And there wasn't a whole lot more to it than that. For me, anyway. And again, that money was spent in the early days on baseball cards and then who knows what other kind of nonsense. But that was my motivation anyway.
[00:08:29] Speaker B: Yeah, well, and you were a big help. When we went to high school, we would drive Dad's old pickup truck to high school, and before we could get a permit, we'd even park it down at Ernst Park. And I don't know, do you. Do you remember? Because when I. My senior year, I would get out the last period. Do you remember when I called up impersonating dad and said for them to let you go?
[00:08:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:49] Speaker B: And I was.
[00:08:50] Speaker C: I remember.
Well, I remember the woman's name. I don't. I guess you won't say it, but yeah.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: She, well, it was Betty, she was the secretary. And yeah, she informed my, she informed our mother like five or six years after we both graduated that she knew it was me calling her from the pay phone in the lower level of the high school to let Rich out early so he could help me mow lawns. So.
[00:09:13] Speaker C: Well, it's pretty cool looking back on that, how, how quickly that grew. Right. But I think in terms for me, which probably different from you, you're still, I mean this is still your life, right. So you have all sorts of experiences and things. I don't. But one of the things I really appreciate that looking back on you remember that first development where we went passing out flyers and knocking on doors was quail Ron. Right.
[00:09:34] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:09:34] Speaker C: And you look back on that and you realize like somebody just had to take a chance on you. I mean we had no idea what we were doing, but somebody figured out why not give the kid a shot, right? No, it's just cool that people would do that.
[00:09:46] Speaker B: It is. And you make a very good point. When I drive through neighborhoods and I see young guys and gals with their businesses, I try to stop and tell them, you know, wish them good luck. I don't make fun of them. I look at the work and I, even if I see that it's gosh, that's not a real good job. I'm like, man, it's still probably bearing the crap you and I were doing when we got started.
[00:10:06] Speaker C: I mean, we didn't have cameras with us everywhere. There's no evidence of our screw up.
[00:10:11] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Nobody knew what we were doing. What's the funniest or the most embarrassing thing that, that we did? I, I've, I've got, I think it's kind of the funniest thing. What are the things that come easy. You. Yeah. What are the things that come to mind with you?
[00:10:27] Speaker C: I don't know. I mean one that comes to mind is that turn to two video.
[00:10:31] Speaker B: Oh goodness, yes.
[00:10:32] Speaker C: I mean it's because we'll attach that. I mean that is the one I think anyway, the one piece of video evidence that exists from those very early days and it looks utterly ridiculous on many levels. On the other, you think back on, it was really cool that you knew how to go about doing that and you found a way to basically get a resolution that you weren't going to get otherwise. You were. No, we weren't going to position to pay a lawyer.
[00:10:55] Speaker B: We weren't going to get paid by turn to two and a 17 year old worked over the hotel by getting them on tv. Yeah, well, that was the end this episode. So you can watch it. We'll, we'll maybe make a break right here so folks can watch it. If you've ever been worried about the future of today's youth, you might be encouraged by tonight's turn to two report. Terry Caldwell recently heard from a teenager with a problem.
[00:11:20] Speaker D: Meet the founder of one of the Miami Valley's fastest growing businesses. He's 17 year old high school senior Martin Grunder of Bellbrook. Four years ago, like many teenagers, he decided to pick up extra spending money by mowing lawns in the summer.
[00:11:35] Speaker E: There's always people looking for, you know, people to cut their lawns and things and we can do, you know, we can do a professional job for a reasonable price.
[00:11:44] Speaker D: What was a part time job then has bloomed into a full fledged business today.
I don't know what you were doing in the summer of your 17th year. I wish that I could say that I had this much ambition and good business sense.
[00:11:59] Speaker E: We have about, oh, close to 2020 clients and we do like some clients, we don't just cut the grass like spread mulch or plant a tree, things like that.
[00:12:10] Speaker D: Grunder now has three employees, including his younger brother. He hires, advertises, schedules work and manages the books.
[00:12:17] Speaker E: We do very well for ourselves.
It's helping with college, so saving for college.
[00:12:24] Speaker D: Since last November, Grunder's savings account has been $80 short. Last summer he had the mowing job at the Dayton Mall, Holiday Inn. He agreed to bill them for the work.
[00:12:34] Speaker E: The checks were always real late coming and I don't know what happened with the last one, but I would call and call and they'd always tell me there was something wrong. And you know, I didn't really know what to do before I talked to you guys.
[00:12:45] Speaker D: Holiday Inn officials did not tell us what caused the holdup, but they did respond well.
[00:12:50] Speaker E: He turned to two. Got me to check. Couldn't believe it when I opened the mailbox last Friday.
[00:12:56] Speaker D: So Grunder has learned that things aren't always easy in business. And for up and coming teenage lawnmowers, he agreed to pass along the secret of his success.
[00:13:05] Speaker E: You got to keep your blade sharp. That's about it. Just take your time.
[00:13:09] Speaker D: That's the only tip you have for us?
[00:13:10] Speaker E: The only tip I have? Yep.
[00:13:13] Speaker D: I'm Terry Caldwell, TV 2 Eyewitness News.
[00:13:16] Speaker B: It is pretty funny. When I watched that, that took guts. I didn't know any better. And you know, Rich, I don't know if you remember this or not? They owed me $80. That's all I knew.
[00:13:25] Speaker C: It wasn't a big sum by today's standards, but it mattered a lot to us at the time.
[00:13:29] Speaker B: It sure did. It really did. Do you remember the hornets in Mrs. Cuthbertson's yard?
[00:13:35] Speaker C: Yeah. There was something about that corner where things often went wrong. Right.
[00:13:39] Speaker B: Back in Brittany Hills, one should say what happened with the hornets.
[00:13:45] Speaker C: Well, you probably have a better angle on it than I do because you got to watch the whole thing. But I was working one of those walk behind lawnmowers. It was a button, right?
[00:13:53] Speaker B: Yeah. And we had disconnected the safety device because we were sick of it.
[00:13:57] Speaker C: Yeah. I was going to say that may not conform to your safety standards at GLC these days, but we disabled that. Shut off that. If you let go, it would stop. And that annoyed us, so we disabled it. And I was going down a pretty big hill with that thing, and I didn't know, but I ran over a hornet's nest. And you know how that. You don't really know what's happening at first. You start to feel something, and then you're like, ah.
And I just got attacked by hornets. And so I let go of the mower and took off running. And then I think you came over to see what happened. He said, where's the mower?
And it had cut a path and a winding curve, like down a hill. It went onto a street. I think it crossed into what, two yards?
[00:14:36] Speaker B: Two yards. It mowed over two hedges of boxwood.
[00:14:39] Speaker C: Yeah, that's right.
[00:14:40] Speaker B: It was still going. It ended up in Lisa Murshad, who I went to high school with. It ended up in her front yard.
[00:14:47] Speaker C: I just remember it stopping somewhere, which is hilarious in retrospect. But you also were thankful it didn't run into something.
[00:14:53] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
[00:14:55] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:56] Speaker B: And you were right.
[00:14:57] Speaker C: Would have been.
[00:14:58] Speaker B: You were right, because at the corner at. What happened at the corner there with the truck and the trailer, Richie?
[00:15:04] Speaker C: Well, that's. I don't remember. I. That may have been my fault. In my mind, I was driving, but I must not have been. You weren't in the truck, right?
[00:15:13] Speaker B: No, I wasn't in the truck. The trailer came off the truck and went through a garage.
[00:15:18] Speaker C: Yeah. And I'm trying to understand. I don't think I was driving. I think I was in the front, because I remember sitting there and we're just driving along. We think we're leaving a job, and I look out of the window, there goes the trailer. So somehow it had bounced off the hitch. And we must have been going really slowly, but we're going downhill, I guess.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:37] Speaker C: Even though the tongue would have been scraping along it past us. Right.
[00:15:40] Speaker B: I thought you were driving and maybe Greg lapierre was in the passenger seat and said, the trailer's passing us.
[00:15:46] Speaker C: I don't know, because I remember getting out and running after the trailer, which makes me think I wasn't driving, but I don't remember that. But that's another one that you got lucky on. That could have been a lot worse, too. Oh, my God.
[00:15:56] Speaker B: All that cost us. All that cost us was a garage door.
[00:15:59] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:15:59] Speaker B: You know, and there's so many people listening to the Grow show Powered by Steel today that probably, you know, they're going to want to post that they had something even funnier than that. And I look back on that stuff and in. In all reality, Rich, I haven't been around you a whole lot in the last 25 years. That was a blessing to do that stuff. We. We had a ton of fun. Why don't you describe my management style back then? What was that like? How would you characterize me as a manager when we were getting started?
[00:16:28] Speaker C: Yeah. I don't know that you could honestly say you had a style per se at that time. You know, you just did what you thought was right. And I think inevitably you have to be kind of reactionary when it's all new for the first time. But you were always super organized in a way that I was not. And you clearly had a sense that you wanted to do something much bigger than what we were doing at the time of the company. Right. I think you understood the things that needed to happen in a way that I just didn't. For me, it was show up, mow this lawn, go to the next one, wrap up the day, put the equipment away, do it again tomorrow. But for you, it was much more about running a business business. So you had to think about books, you had to think about hiring, you had to think about how would you grow the business, what would your. What would make Grunder Landscaping unique, different, special, and all those things that have contributed all the success you've had over the years. So you had a lot of vision at that time. It's pretty cool. Looking back on it, I can't say I did.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: Anyway, I think we each had our set of talents, and I love hearing that. Thank you. I. I don't. I never really looked at it that way. What was something I did that drove you nuts?
[00:17:33] Speaker C: Well, at the time, because it ties into What I was saying, you were thinking about a business.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:39] Speaker C: And all I saw was basically, you know, we have jobs we have to do. Once the job's over, I'm kind of finished with this, let's go play baseball or something.
[00:17:46] Speaker B: Right.
[00:17:46] Speaker C: So we would get frustrated. And I wasn't the only one. If we're out there digging holes or, you know, mowing lawns and 90 degrees and humid back in Dayton, Ohio, and you'd go rolling by in your air conditioned Ford Ranger. Remember that little like safari hat you wore for a while?
[00:18:00] Speaker B: That thing? Yes.
[00:18:01] Speaker C: You know, you were out trying to sell jobs and do things that needed to happen, but we didn't appreciate that because we just. All we were thinking about was the misery of the daily job at the time.
[00:18:10] Speaker B: I still have that hat. It's a Banana Republic bucket hat. I should give it.
Yeah, it's got. I still have it.
[00:18:17] Speaker C: But I remember you. You might recall this too. And I won't mention any names, but he's a friend that I'm still somewhat in touch with, I think you see, once in a while. But at some point along the way, you sold a job to, I think it was build a new deck on the back of a house. Do you remember that?
[00:18:32] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:18:33] Speaker C: And I was talking to you months later. You basically subbed it out to him because he knew how to build a deck and we didn't basically.
[00:18:38] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:18:39] Speaker C: And months after that, he and I must have been hanging out. He was griping about how he had done all the work, but, you know, he didn't get all the money for it. And I went to you and said, hey, you know, Don is his name is saying how he did all the work on this job. And I'm like, he's right. And you said, well, yeah, who's the smart one?
Which may not sound right to some people, but from the standpoint of being, you know, running a business and overseeing all the other risks and selling the job and all that. Right. You subcontracted out to him. So.
[00:19:11] Speaker B: Yeah. You have the insurance responsibility. Right?
[00:19:14] Speaker C: Yeah. I remember thinking, huh, you kind of have a point there. I just hadn't thought of that. I mean, we were, I don't know, at that point, maybe what, 18, 17. 18 years old. And I just didn't have an awareness of all the other things that go into business eventually develop.
[00:19:29] Speaker B: Right. Did you like landscaping more or cutting grass or did you not really like any of it?
[00:19:34] Speaker C: I don't think I really cared. I mean, the lawn mowing would certainly get monotonous by the time you got into June or July.
[00:19:41] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:42] Speaker C: So I guess in some ways landscaping was probably more interesting because it was always a little bit different. But we also, there's not a whole lot that goes into mowing a lawn once you learn how to do it, that's pretty simple. But there are certainly quality landscape installation jobs and those that aren't such high quality.
[00:19:57] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:57] Speaker C: So, yeah, a little more of a learning curve in that, I suppose.
[00:20:01] Speaker B: There was a great business lesson that I learned early on with CJ Bruckner. Do you remember Mr. Bruckner? Carl Bruckner?
[00:20:07] Speaker C: I remember the name, yeah.
[00:20:09] Speaker B: He was the sweet man that lived by NCR Country Club. And he just, I think us coming to see him once a week was, was it just. It made his week. And if you remember, he always had 7 ups, ice cold 7 ups and crackers on a little table in the garage.
[00:20:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:26] Speaker B: And he always had something nice to say to us. And if you remember, when I grew the business, it was probably when you were at Clemson, the business got so big that I couldn't do his work anymore for him at the price. And I had to go and see him and I had to tell him that either we raise his price by, I think it was like double or I couldn't keep doing it. I was smart enough to go see him in person and tell him that.
On one hand, I'd like to say I was smart enough to go see him in person, but there wasn't cell phones, there wasn't email and it. And I think probably at the time I was too lazy to write a letter, like you'd have to type it up. So I thought, I'll just go see him. And I remember going to see him and I remember him saying, oh my gosh, what am I going to do? And I remember feeling so bad about it, but at the same time, Rich, I was like, I have a business to run and I can't, like, I can't do it for any, for nothing. I have bills to pay. Without getting into a lot of details, our parents didn't have a lot of money. I mean, we weren't in a, in a spot where they were bankrolling our business and going to be able to pay for our school. I mean, you and I had to pay for our own college education, which I think it's a great lesson too, as, by the way. But I didn't know if you remembered C.J. he was a lovely guy. And I, and I, I learned a lot.
[00:21:42] Speaker C: I do remember that what you're describing. I mean, I wasn't directly involved in it. Right. But I do remember that. I don't know how it resolved. Did we keep working with him or maybe find some kid in the neighborhood who could do it for that price?
[00:21:53] Speaker B: He found. He found another kid to do it, and I helped him find that. But I don't remember. I can't remember the details. I just remember it being so impactful for me as a, you know, as a young businessman that it's hard to say no. But sometimes you have to say that you've got to keep your eye on what's best for the whole team. And you have to get beyond some of these little things like that that are challenges in a business.
[00:22:18] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, it's a valuable lesson. Right. And in some ways, it's probably better that you learn those early when you have less to lose, too. Right?
[00:22:26] Speaker B: Yeah. No, that's very true. Because at times people will say, well, oh, my gosh, you know, I don't know how you. You did all that and take risks. But I was like, well, when I was in my 20s, it really wasn't that big of a risk because I didn't have anything. It wasn't.
[00:22:41] Speaker C: I thought about that a lot, too. That's true.
[00:22:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:43] Speaker C: In some ways, that's the. The beauty. Yeah. Right.
[00:22:46] Speaker B: If I went broke, I mean, okay, I go broke. I don't really have anything already broke. Yeah. So what's. What's that gonna hurt? When you look back at all those hours we spent working together, how did that shape our relationship today?
[00:23:01] Speaker C: Well, I'd say we get along a lot better now. It's been a long time since we worked together. Right.
[00:23:05] Speaker B: Yeah, there was.
[00:23:06] Speaker C: There was definitely plenty of fighting going on back then, mainly because. Yeah, you know, it ties into what I said before. You were thinking about a business, and I wasn't, and so you wanted to get up early and get started, and I didn't. But, you know, at the time, there were times when it, you know, I wanted to go out and goof off with friends or whatever. We just had too much work to do, and it would drive me crazy. But I look back on it, maybe this is just human nature. You tend to forget the parts you didn't like about it. But I. I laugh all the time, thinking about all the things.
[00:23:31] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, so do I. Well, and Rich, also, I know I was too uptight when I was your son's age, and I think I did a better job, you know, as a result of it, of being A dad with my son Grant. He worked for us. And I. I kind of think I understood. I didn't. I don't want to say I didn't have fun. I played baseball. I. I quit after my sophomore year. You were a better player than I was. I wasn't that good. And I saw Grant not. You know, I kind of look back and it's like, yeah, when you're 18, you probably shouldn't have been doing as much as I was.
[00:24:06] Speaker C: There's. Yeah, I missed out on.
[00:24:08] Speaker B: I missed out on some things. I never went on a spring break. I never did any of that stuff. So.
[00:24:13] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, we all did, but you missed out on more. Right. But I mean, there were. For me, I could at least sneak off and goof off once in a while, but they were. I don't think it was uncommon that we put in 60, 70 hour weeks in the summer. Probably. No. By the time we were, I don't know, 17.
[00:24:28] Speaker B: Right.
[00:24:28] Speaker C: I mean, it wasn't like that at first, but eventually it was.
[00:24:31] Speaker B: Let's talk about our parents. They helped shape us. Dad, Martin Senior. You know, what did you learn from dad? What do you think I picked up from dad? What did you pick up from Dad?
[00:24:42] Speaker C: I would say probably whatever you want to call that. Discipline, maybe. Work ethic. Right. To me, those are probably the two biggest things because he, I mean, you know, he was very methodical and every day was more or less the same. Right?
[00:24:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:58] Speaker C: So there's some good that comes from that. But, you know, I think for dad, in a lot of ways, granted, it was work, but a lot of the work he did was sort of things he chose to do, like taking care of the horses and those things. Right. He.
[00:25:09] Speaker B: Right.
[00:25:09] Speaker C: So I think work ethic was a thing with him. Rarely was he sitting around not working on something. I mean, that was very infrequent.
[00:25:16] Speaker B: Crazy. Crazy.
[00:25:17] Speaker C: So I think that's the biggest thing. Whether he was building furniture, fixing something in the house, fixing a car, building something, doing something with the horses. He was always in the middle of a project, some of which were never finished. Right. But.
[00:25:29] Speaker B: Right.
[00:25:30] Speaker C: I think that's the biggest thing.
[00:25:32] Speaker B: And then let's spend some time on our sweet mother, because you and I are. I mean, we talk about her all the time. We lost mom in February of 2019. She was.
She was an amazing lady.
[00:25:44] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:25:46] Speaker B: So humble. The things that she did. She did a ton for our family. With all due respect, mom, she was also. Would do just some of the dumbest things. And she had the Greatest sense of self deprecating humor I have ever seen anyone exhibit in, in their life. Talk a little bit about Mom.
[00:26:06] Speaker C: Well, yeah, I mean, you touched upon that too. But I would also say from mom, work ethic and what I came to appreciate later in life is she was the same way, always doing something. But to me, what was different about that was a lot of what she was doing was for other people. Whether it was you. Yes, me or sister, her sister, you name it. Right. She was always even her profession as a public school teacher was mostly driven by her desire to want to help other people. And even in retirement she continued to volunteer. Right. So she was not, I mean, I don't know if it's fair to call anybody selfless, but she was about as close to that as it, as it gets.
[00:26:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:40] Speaker C: I mean her whole life was basically doing things for other people. And you're right, she. You never heard her complain about much. She was, I think she was naturally hardwired to be that way. She was funny, light hearted, could easily make fun of herself and was always looking out for other people.
[00:26:55] Speaker B: What's your favorite funny thing that she did? I have mine. What's yours?
[00:26:59] Speaker C: And there are so many. I mean you. Yeah, I might, we might be thinking the same one. The rake at the golf course is certainly.
[00:27:04] Speaker B: Oh well, that's mine. So why don't you tell the story?
[00:27:07] Speaker C: Well, I guess neither of us was there, but to what we were saying before about her willingness to joke and laugh at herself. She had for some reason decided she would try golfing. And mom would be the first to admit she was not an athlete. So she went out to what I think was Rolandia. I don't even know.
[00:27:23] Speaker B: You're right, it's not there anymore. It's a development now, but you're right.
[00:27:27] Speaker C: Okay. With a friend of hers. And for some reason they decided they were going to golf. And I don't know if her friend had ever golfed before. I mean, picturing mom tooling around a golf cart is funny just by itself. But they apparently got up to one of the bunkers somewhere along the course and mom saw a rake next to the sand trap. And those of us who golf know that's pretty common. Right. If you go into the sand, you go in hit ball, ideally you get out in one and you rake out your footprints in the ball mark and you get back to your game. But mom just assumed somebody had left the rake there. So she put it in the back of the golf cart and they drove around for the Rest of the round with a rake in it. And she pulled in after it was probably the ninth hole and went to one of the people working there and said, oh, somebody left this rake out on the golf course. I guess the guy just kind of looked at her, said, oh, okay, thank you, ma'am. And off she went.
[00:28:16] Speaker B: I remember her telling me the story. I remember bent over laughing, and our stepdad Tom, who is still alive, he goes, oh, my gosh. He said, I can never go there again.
[00:28:29] Speaker C: I don't remember that.
[00:28:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And I remember saying, well, Tom, I can. He goes, what do you mean you can? I go, my last name's not Graham. My name's Grunder. They won't know she's my mom.
That's my favorite.
[00:28:41] Speaker C: I wonder when mom realized that she had done that, because at the time she wasn't even aware of it. So maybe, maybe Papa Tom told her afterwards.
[00:28:48] Speaker B: I don't know what is so funny. And I think as a lesson in leadership, how many of us say the dumb things that we did? Like, mom had no problem telling you what she screwed up. And by doing that she just made herself so relatable and put was always putting people at ease. I mean, she would always say to me, she'd call me and say, you know, what do you know? Or she'd call. I still have the voicemail on my phone from 2018 when she's calling me to say, I just passed one of your trucks. It looks great. I'm so proud of you. Your guys had no idea who I was and they waved at me. Well, Rich, of course they know who she was. That's why they waved at her there. I mean, that's. It was just maybe things that she, that she would do like that, that were so nice. But my favorite mom story is the Wendy's Drive Thru story. Do you remember that one?
They were driving back from Washington, D.C. and they pulled off the highway to go into a Wendy's. And mom went up to what she thought was the microphone and said, I'll have two chilies, two garden salads, and two diet Dr. Peppers. And our sister had her nose in the book, wasn't getting out of the book, and she said, kathryn, they're not taking my order. And Kathryn said, well, that's okay, mom, we'll just go inside then. So they went inside and she goes up to the counter and she says to the lady behind the counter, she says, yeah, your microphone's broken out there. It's not working, working. So I came in here to order It. And the manager turns around and says, oh, hello there. Yeah, I could see on the cameras you were ordering from the trash can, and it was one of those trash cans that have the flute on them to throw trash in. That was what mom did. Just. Just so much fun. You and I share a love for baseball, Rich. We've. We've grown up with the Reds. Are they going to be any good this year? What do you think?
[00:30:39] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I follow this pretty closely. I. Seems to me your best bet is to peg them to be somewhere around 500. Unless they sign somebody or make a trade. I. I have to think they're looking for a bat.
So we'll see, right? I mean, what they finished last year. How many wins? 75. Ish.
[00:30:58] Speaker B: Probably something. 75. Right.
[00:31:01] Speaker C: I mean, I think they should be better. There's a chance they could be a lot better because some of the young guys obviously were hurt and they had a huge leap forward the year before. And if. If, you know, if they can continue on the path they look to be on, even two years ago, they. They could surprise.
Well, I'd sure like to see it. It's been a long time.
[00:31:18] Speaker B: It has been. I wish you weren't so far away, but we. You and myself and our good friend Todd Romer, we have a little texting string that we talk Reds baseball all the time on. It's a lot of fun. I think it would be good to hear some of your thoughts on business since you spend a lot of time on the. On the business side. What are your thoughts on 2025? I'd be happy to hear anything you have to share on what you think small business owners should be focused on right now. And what's your take on the economy?
[00:31:47] Speaker C: Well, for what small business owners should be focused on, that's not my area of expertise. It would just seem to me, given what I follow and the things I'm observing in the market, to whatever extent you're borrowing, I would keep a close eye on that. You know, for many, many years, their money was very cheap. You were likely, if you were borrowing four or five years ago. We're paying historically low interest rates. That's gone. That doesn't mean that they may not get higher. And I think we're in a really unique situation there that I would be focusing very closely on the debt that I have. What is the cost of that debt relative to the money I think I'm making for having that debt? Right. And I think it's just hard to say. I mean, I Think you, if you're in a cyclical business, which landscaping. I guess it depends to some extent on what specifically you're doing. Within landscaping, things might be pretty good in 2025. Right. Growth may well be on the table. I think a lot of the policies that have been proposed would be pro growth, but you also have countervailing force there. I think landscaping, these are always estimates, but a significant portion of employees, often undocumented workers. And if there's a crackdown on immigration, you might see your labor supply shrink. And I think you're probably already paying a lot more than you were three, four, or five years ago for labor. So I think it depends where you are in your business. But if you're thinking about the risks, those are the two I'd be watching. What does my balance sheet look like? Can I handle the debt I have if the interest rates do go up a bit more from here? And what does it look like if I have to start paying even more for labor?
[00:33:17] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I think those are all good concerns. We, as you know, participate in the H2B program. We spend a fortune every year to do it the right way and be legal. I don't have a lot of respect for folks that are using undocumented workers, and I definitely think there's going to be a crackdown on that. There's just been too much conversations around that for that not to happen. That that is a concern.
[00:33:39] Speaker C: That's from my perspective, it's probably what I'd be most concerned with.
[00:33:43] Speaker B: Anything else about business, anything else about being a dad, what's it like having a teenager?
[00:33:50] Speaker C: It's interesting how that changes. You've been through it four times now, right? This is my first and only. So it is interesting how it changes. But what I keep reminding myself is you're raising what you hope is going to be an adult one day, and you have to let a kid kind of find his or her own way at some point too, right? So I definitely find myself getting nostalgic for when he was, you know, whatever, five, six, seven, eight, you know. Now, inevitably, there's some distance there at times that was not there before, but it's still. It's a blast. And you get these moments. I think we all do. You watch your kid playing that you didn't probably fully appreciate that he or she was capable of. And that's where the real rewards in when they get older. So I. I see him maturing a lot, and it's. It's awesome to.
[00:34:32] Speaker B: To watch, you know, I don't know if I told you this, and. And if Grant watches the Grow show, he'll pick up on this. But Grant graduated. My. My youngest, my son graduated from college in May of 2023.
[00:34:44] Speaker C: He went to work.
[00:34:45] Speaker B: I know, it's just amazing. Rich. He went to work for a company in Chicago, and he's doing well. I'm proud of him. And the company promised them some things, and then they kind of reneged on him. And he was there about four months. And Lisa, my wife, and I went and we went up to Chicago to see him. We took him to dinner. I asked him how the job was going, and he goes, well, these guys, I mean, they made us all these promises, and now they've reneged on him. And I'm paraphrasing here. And he said something like, you know, it's just not right. I'm just not going to work hard, then I'll show them. And that's not exactly what he said it, but it was something like that. And I remember clenching my fist, saying, gosh, don't say that. But I resisted the urge to make any comment at all.
And that was, like, in August. Then we went back in February, took him out to dinner again, and I said, hey, how's work going? He's like, well, it's going better. They kind of cleaned some of that stuff up. And I realized that if I don't like it, then it's up to me. I got to go find another job. And I got to work hard at the one I'm at, so I get a good referral. And I remember hearing that, thinking, wow, look how much he's grown up in five months on a perspective on life, because the One is in the world, according to Marty, blaming others, not accepting responsibility for it. And just that's what's going to happen. You're going to have bad employers. That's life. Grant. I didn't say anything, and I didn't say a word. And on his own, he got to the answer that I think is the right one, where if you don't like the situation, then you're the one that's in most control of that. You've got to try to figure out a way to find a better place.
[00:36:24] Speaker C: Yeah, good for him.
So it's definitely a sign of maturity. Right? And I think it is. Everybody has to get out there into the world. And those lessons ultimately probably aren't learned in the classroom. Right. It takes some. Whatever it is you want to do to be out there engaging in the world and learning Those things.
[00:36:40] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:36:41] Speaker C: It's so good for Grant.
[00:36:42] Speaker B: Good for Grant. Well, Rich, it's been a pleasure to have you on here. Love you, man. You're a great brother. I admire what you're doing. I admire you as a dad and a husband, a business person. I appreciate you coming on here and sharing. It is very good with these phones are a bit of a curse, but for keeping in touch with somebody who is a four and a half hour plane ride away from me, they're pretty good. And I'm glad you came on. And there's probably several siblings that have listened to the Grow show today that are going to send this around and say, hey, here's two guys. But I appreciate everything you did to help me get the business started and I'm going to see you again real soon.
[00:37:20] Speaker C: Yeah, thanks. Well, I'll also say I appreciate everything you've done because as you're aware, I was a little more prone to goofing off when I was younger than you were. And I think you set a big example for what could be accomplished and with a little bit of focus and tenacity and discipline and all those things would, would eventually pay off. So I never strayed too far from that and came back to it eventually. So here we are.
[00:37:41] Speaker B: Oh, you've done great. And I can tell you that my kids love their Uncle Rich. They think you're.
[00:37:45] Speaker C: I love them too.
[00:37:46] Speaker B: So say hello to everybody. We're gonna say hello to everybody. Well, that's gonna do it for the Grow show folks this week. Powered By Steel Episode 100 is in the books. If you haven't done so already, subscribe to the Grow show and if you can give it a rating or share a comment that helps more success minded landscape professionals find us. And if you really want to help us share this episode with your team or any landscape pro, you know, you can take your phone out right now and you can text it to them or a fellow landscape pro, a co worker, whoever, and you'll help us spread the word. Thanks for joining us on the Grow show this week. We'll see you next week.
[00:38:21] Speaker A: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Grow Show. Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And head to growgroupinc.com for more information and resources to grow your landscaping business. A special thanks to the folks at Steele whose support makes this podcast possible and whose reliable handheld power equipment makes our jobs easier daily. We'll talk to you next week.
